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This October In the closing days of the presidential election, podcast host Joe Rogan said something extraordinary. He recently hosted Donald. Trump spoke for three hours in his studio in Austin, Texas, and wanted to make clear that he had discussed a similar deal with Kamala Harris’ campaign. Date for Tuesday But I must travel to find you. And they only need one hour,” he said. Post on X. “I felt strongly that the best way to do it was in a studio in Austin,” so Rogan declined to interview the vice president.
Some people say he’s a singer. If you receive an offer to interview a presidential candidate, Then stop caring and get on the plane! But Rogan can set his own terms. He’s not competing in the snake pit of D.C. journalism, where sitting across from a major candidate creates an immediate status reversal. He is the most popular podcast host. by a right-wing audience that enjoys mixed martial arts stand up comedy and speculating wildly about aliens (space, not illegal). They are not obsessed with politics. Rogan knows that Harris needs him more than he needs her.
Nothing is more emblematic of the changing media landscape of this past election than Rogan’s casual brush-off within a week. His interview with Trump also became more intense. It has more than 40 million views. Only on YouTube and millions more on other platforms. There were no events at all. In addition to the Harris-Trump debate There is still a larger audience this election cycle. When compared Harris’ controversial interview with Bret Baier on Fox News, the most popular cable network. It attracted 8 million live viewers and another 6.5 million on YouTube.
These numbers demonstrate the futility of talking about “mainstream media” as many People are still doing it. Especially those who despise it. 2021 Pew Research Center SurveyAmericans with diverse political opinions It is generally agreed upon which channels fall within this definition: Newspapers, for example. The New York Times and Wall Street Journal And on television networks like CNN, others who disseminate information at large are treated like a couple of hipsters who bravely opened a craft brewery that was competing with Budweiser.
(From the October 2024 issue: Helen Lewis on how Joe Rogan is rearranging Austin)
That’s simply not true. Rogan is now “mainstream media” and so is Elon Musk. In the 2024 campaign, both presidential candidates are largely skipping newspapers and television. especially the interview “Responsibility” is stricter and more focused. to turn to talking directly with people in the online world (JD Vance credits him with Answer reporter’s questions in His event and sat down with CNN and at timeand much more) As a result, both Trump and Harris have stopped reciting slogans rather than outlining policies. Trump has not outlined how his promised mass deportations might work in practice. And we never know whether Harris continues to stand by her previous positions, such as abolishing the death penalty. and the decriminalization of prostitution. In that vacuum there is a feeling.
The concept of Mainstream media emerged in the 20th century, when reaching a mass audience required infrastructure such as a printing press or broadcast frequency. or cables going into people’s homes and in various institutions That fact makes it easy for the media to slander. “The press became ‘the press’ because the word had a Madison Avenue connotation, and the press hated it,” Richard Nixon speechwriter William Safire wrote in his 1975 memoir.
However, the idea that mainstream media is made up of big corporations still exists, even though the internet, smartphones, and social media have made it possible for anyone to reach millions of listeners. Two of the most important sources of information this election cycle have jobs that were unheard of a decade ago: Acyn Torabi and Aaron Rupar, who watch hours of political rallies and television appearances to clip them down. social media These “clippers” can spark discussions for days. This is especially true when the context of a quote is contested, such as when Vance’s 2021 speech labeled Democrats as “Childless Cat Lady” goes viral
Today, the divide between the “mainstream” and the outsiders is not one of access. 63 percent of American adults get some of their news from television, 42 percent from radio and 26 percent from print, according to the data. Pew Report 2024– but 54 percent get at least some of their news from social media. which means In addition to the established channels They also rely on sources such as Infowars videos, Facebook memes, and posts on X.
Disunity isn’t about influence either. During Trump’s victory speech in Florida, he invited UFC chief Dana White to say a few words. White thanked streamer Adin Ross, podcaster Theo Vaughan, YouTubers known as the Nelk Boys and former NFL players Will Compton and Taylor Lewan, and Roe. Axis during the campaign All of these men hosted Trump softball interviews. Often backed by Trump’s 18-year-old son, Barron, Ross was able to Giving Trump a gold Rolex and a customized Tesla Cybertruck during a live stream– (You do not receive such treatment from Wall Street Journal Editorial Department)
(From the May 2024 issue: Is Theo Vaughan the next Joe Rogan?)
Trump’s performance, aggressiveness and ability to socialize are well suited to this new environment. His inconsistency isn’t a problem. These interviews are designed to be entertaining and personal. It’s not to reinforce his stance on abortion or question his income tax policy. Trump has been especially enthusiastic about embracing this new media group. But Democrats also understand the power of this new media conglomerate: In 2023, Jill Biden spoke at a White House holiday party to hundreds of influential people. “You are here because you represent how the way people receive news and information has changed,” she said. It is reported that– at the Democratic National Convention More than 200 “content creators” are certified along with traditional journalists.
Ultimately, media segregation isn’t just about resources either. Some traditional stores, though, are still large and well-financed companies. But there are several upstart outlets as well: Vance, Peter Thiel and Vivek Ramaswamy have all invested in video platform Rumble, which Going public in 2022 With a valuation of $2.1 billion, when? The Daily Wirea right-wing online news organization, tried to hire Steven Crowder, a prominent internet figure. He was offered $50 million over four years. He denies this. They called such an agreement a “slave contract”.
As for Rogan, it’s clear he chose to forgo fact-checkers and lawyers in favor of a guy named Jamie who does Google searches, but he didn’t have to. His latest deal with Spotify is reportedly worth as much as $250 million. He can hire the entire newsroom if he wants. But Rogan correctly intuited that many Americans no longer trust the establishment. They like to receive news from trusted people.
Main beneficiary Our outdated ideas about The “mainstream media” is the political right. More recently, conservatives have resented the separation from the MSM. Because they think it paints them as extreme. Sarah Palin complained about “Tremendism,” as the late Rush Limbaugh liked to call it. “State-controlled media” or “driven media”
But that has changed. Being outside the mainstream is now seen as more authentic. And more in line with Real America, Trump’s continued criticism of The “fake news media” has been enthusiastically embraced by his imitators. Complaints about the alleged liberal media bias have been amplified by openly partisan critics: Tucker Carlson, Russell Brand, Dan Bongino, Megyn Kelly, Charlie Kirk, Alex Jones. The premise behind this is that the media all tilt to one side or another. one But at least these people are honest about it. That allowed them to talk to Trump at rallies (Kelly), embrace bizarre conspiracy theories (Jones), talk about confronting demons (Carlson), and continue to work. This is despite multiple allegations of sexual harassment. (Brand, which denies the claims) —Everything that is out of bounds for real journalists.
And it’s clear that some influencers are actually comfortable with the topics they cover. You may not have heard of Instagrammer and Substacker Jessica Reed Kraus, formerly a lifestyle influencer. But she has more than 400,000 subscribers on Substack, where she brags about her access to Robert F. Kennedy Jr. and Trump. In January, she Join Kennedy on his catamaran. In Hawaii, sip mimosas and eat pineapple. She attended Trump’s Super Bowl party at Mar-a-Lago. Reed Kraus is open about focusing on personality. not political “The average American doesn’t have the time or patience to consider what separates one applicant’s health care plan from another.” she said signal– “Rather, they relate to and respond to intimate aspects that indicate a person’s character.”
Often these same influencers are the loudest voices complaining about the failures of the “media.” Before the election, Rogan hosted Musk, another media giant. It was Trump’s prosecution, which Rogan endorsed at the time. “The traditional media, the mainstream media, is so unbalanced,” said Musk, who has personally donated more than $100 million to Trump’s re-election effort. “They are just the mouthpiece of the Democratic Party” is fine, for example, CNN’s Andrew Kaczynski. Breaking down the single most damaging story. For the Harris campaign, which she actually supported. “Transgender operations against illegal aliens in prison,” in Trump’s phrase. (This has become a staple in Republican attack ads.) And it doesn’t matter to Musk that amidst his complaints about the standards of mainstream media. He has promoted many fake stories: About Nancy Pelosi’s Husbandabout Gang attacks polling station During the recent Venezuelan elections and even around that time. dead squirrel The right to euthanasia is seen as evidence of government access to power. When he was proven wrong Often by old media The same thing he condemned He often deletes his posts without correction or apology.
What will happen next? To me, the picture looks bleak: more conspiracy theories. There is more noise. There are increasingly loud voices complaining about the biases of others. It is difficult to see how the institution of journalists can be rebuilt. When many business models collapse Moving advertising dollars to Google and Meta means the newsroom of the 20th century is unlikely to return. With some exceptions
We cannot shift the drift from institutions to individuals. And new partisan outlets cannot be forced to adopt 20th century norms, the Fairness Doctrine. This was a policy repealed under Ronald Reagan that required broadcasters to reflect conflicting views. must be lost forever We must abandon the idea that “Mainstream media” is a category reserved only for journalists. with professional ethics principles Mission in public service and the ambition towards neutrality, or at least fairness.
Many independent journalists are doing good, important work—I’m thinking of YouTuber Coffeezilla’s work on crypto scams and Jason Garcia’s investigation into Floridian politics about his rent-seeking Substack—but they’re surrounded. With the tumultuous sea of Partisans who work under new and different rules, show bias, take it easy on yourself. And don’t be harsh on your subject by asking uncomfortable questions. “You are now the media,” Musk told User X when the election results came in. It was the truest statement he had made in months.
For people who create their own platforms to influential people jumping on catamarans with politicians. to streamers handing out Teslas to their guests Well done on your victory. Welcome to mainstream media. Now hold yourself to the same standards you would demand from others.
This article appeared in the January 2025 print edition with the headline “Joe Rogan Is the Mainstream Media Now.”
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